Dope Shows co-founder Jamir Shaw still remembers the longest non-pandemic pause of his concert promotion career — a moment that, ironically, felt like a vocational curtain call. One year after leaving the world of party promotion to start up a concert promo company with his real estate investor Stephen Piner, he was in the middle of a four-month drought when they landed a Lil Baby concert at Philadelphia’s TLA in 2018. “By the grace of God, we were able to get through it,” he tells Okayplayer. Seven years later, they’ve done a lot more than that.

Since founding Dope Shows in 2017, Shaw and Piner have become one of the more dominant independent show promoters in the country. They say they’re closing in on $25 million in revenue this year, and their role in promoting Cash Money Records’ 30th anniversary tour this past summer is proof of that kind of level up.

“It’s kind of surreal just going through it because there’s so many layers to the tour and so many emotions get put into it,” says Piner. “It always reminds me why we’re doing it and it always reminds me of how legendary the tour actually is.”

The tour is just the latest result of a collaboration years in the making — and what Shaw and Piner would say is a brand and a philosophy. “Our slogan is ain’t no shows like dope shows,” Piner tells me, mirroring the exact cadence Shaw will use when breaking down their professional approach about a week later. But what, exactly, makes a dope show?

If you ask Piner, arranging concerts comes down to a mix of relationships and some associative thinking. He nods to last year’s Fall Classic — an epic that featured Jeezy, Lox, Lil Kim and State Property — as a show that epitomized their approach. “If they like Jeezy, they probably love The Lox and they probably love State Property,” he says. “We just try to make it a once in a lifetime experience.” Piner is also part of a group chat with younger heads that keep him locked into the latest musical trends. Looking to the future is one part of the job. But a healthy sense of nostalgia — and a visceral love of live performance — are probably even more important.

“I remember being young and I saw Doug E. Fresh at the Mann Music Center and I couldn’t even get a ticket,” Piner remembers. “I had to climb the gate to get in and as soon as I heard when his song dropped, it was the biggest thing in the world.”

For his part of the equation, Shaw taps into the theoretical, imagining Create-a-Player scenarios for potential audience members everywhere. “Booking your dream show has always been what we strive for … Even if you see this artist somewhere else, what’s going to make our experience unique?” Shaw says. He points to a 2022 Fillmore show date with Gunna, Lil Baby, Lil Durk, and G Herbo as a perfect constellation of opportunity and inventiveness that drives fans to venues.

“If you went to go see Lil Baby and Lil Durk on tour, Gunna and G Herbo wouldn’t have been with them on tour,” Shaw says.

Looking ahead, Dope Shows wants to continue winning on their own terms — for themselves and Black folks as a whole. “When we first got into the show business, you look around and when you booking venues, there weren’t a lot of people that look like us,” Piner says. “I think we just needed more representation in that field and we just wanted to bring that.”

Turning dreams to ticket sales, and ticket sales back to dreams, Dope Shows feels like they’re just getting started. “The hard work is something that we always wanted to put first and the money will follow,” Piner says. “This is definitely a place we wanted to be,” he adds. “But even with us being here we got so much further to go.”